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Post Info TOPIC: The Yamato 302


Voyager Contributor

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Date: Aug 12, 2008
The Yamato 302
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Remember last week when we saw that Yamato engine on the Feathercraft ? Thats all I have been thinking about [when I'm not thinking of Girls]. Well check out this 302 on youtube ! The thing sounds just like my RM125. I have got to find one of these motors.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRZ8QrFjlnc

-- Edited by Eagle127 at 18:23, 2008-08-12

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1958 VAGABOND II,1950 FireFly, A 1955 Lone Star Star Jet .

An Embarrassment to the entire boating community.



Regular Contributor

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Here's one for sale I posted on our very own board a couple of days ago.

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=729&p=3&topicID=19806755

-- Edited by Jim_D at 21:37, 2008-08-12

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Meteor Contributor

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Eagle,

I found the guy that sells them, I'll get back on later this evening and let you know about them.

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Rum Runner '56 Vagabond II Soon to be on a Custom built polished aluminum trailer


Meteor Contributor

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Date: Aug 14, 2008
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Eagle,

I was told that the motors weigh about 85 lbs., the H.P. is 32-34? The cost is $2100.00, I can't remember what the torque spec's are but there're pretty stout. I think shipping was $178.00.

You have to be a member of a racing organization, and you have to sign EPA documents that your going to race the motor.

I think I will wind up with one,... and brother am I going to race it!

Thom

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Deluxe Runabout Contributor

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Keep in mind these motors are meant for race type boats with very flat bottoms or Hydro's. They might be okay on the lightest of Feathercrafts like a Flash or similar. The lower unit gears aren't meant to push a heavy load and the Horsepower is developed at HIGH RPM. They have no neutral. If you put one of these on a Feather Craft type boat that weighs more than 150 pounds plus driver and whatever else you'll be lucky to get it on plane. IMHO they are way cool but not practical on a Feathercraft. This is the type bosat they are meant for. This is my DeSilva.



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Meteor Contributor

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Flyinaceman,

My Vagabond is now a raceboat!

When a Vagabond is on plane, with enough power, the only part of the hull touching the water at speed, is the back of the hull where it is completely flat! A Vagabond only weighs 300 lbs. a Yamato motor only weighs 85 lbs. a fuel tank will be 50 lbs. of fuel and I weigh 240 lbs. That's only 675 lbs, I'm still 25 lbs. under the 700 lb. minimum weight.

These Yamato motors will work just fine on any of the Feather Crafts that we all discuss on this forum, and I would imagine that some of the lighter FC hulls would be a really wild ride with a Yamato 302. They are working on a Yamato 402, but it's not out yet!

Here's the general spec's for Formula V;

Class for ages 16 years old and up with a minimum racing weight of 700 lbs. Using production 13 to 14 foot v-bottom hulls. The motors are stock with a minimum of 40 HP with a maximum size of 61 cubic inch two and three cylinder engines. Affordable OPC starting class.

Here's the spec's for Modified Unlimited;

Class for ages 18 years old and up with a racing weight of 1100 lbs if the engine is under 2800 CC and 1250 lbs if the engine if over 2800 CC. This class is the top class in outboard racing where speeds can reach well over 140 MPH.



-- Edited by Rum Runner at 22:50, 2008-08-14

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Rum Runner '56 Vagabond II Soon to be on a Custom built polished aluminum trailer


Deluxe Runabout Contributor

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Heres a go Fast Merc on a Feather. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSHD0Gj53B4

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Meteor Contributor

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Hey,

Seeing Miss P Piggy, makes me want to get the polishers out and warm them up! That racer needs a good polish job!

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Rum Runner '56 Vagabond II Soon to be on a Custom built polished aluminum trailer


Deluxe Runabout Contributor

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I tend to disagree. I think after you spend the money to try this motor on a Vagabond you will be very disappointed. In my opinion a Vagabond is anything but a fast boat. I'm very familiar with the Vagabonds. I'd like to see how long it takes the boat to get on a plane. Please post video's because seeing is believing. Of course, these are only my opinions.

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Meteor Contributor

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What's neat about opinions is, they aren't right or wrong, they're just opinions. And everybody's got one!

What I'm looking at on the Yamato motor is this; it's 40 lbs. less weight than a '56 Johnson Javelin, the lower unit is less drag due to a smaller size lower unit, that translates to more horse power, or better use of the horse power. True, the Vagabond may not have as fast a bottom as a race boat, but there is compensation due to less weight and less drag. It will move faster with the Yamato than it will with the Javelin, just from the shear difference of the weight to horse power ratio! I don expect it to move like your De Silva, I have raced a boat or two in my day so I understand what you are saying. I'm not looking to win any races, just go faster than a stock Johnson motor!

It looks like Miss P Piggy was moving at a pretty good clip and that boat doesn't weigh that much less than a Vagabond.

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Rum Runner '56 Vagabond II Soon to be on a Custom built polished aluminum trailer


Meteor Contributor

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Eagle,

I know how you feel! But the guy that's selling the motors is bound by the EPA with these regulations I guess, the only thing I can think of for the bit about signing EPA documents is that it has something to do with pollution? Who knows for sure! I just want to run one of these Yamato's and see what it does!

Don't you mean salt, salt as in rock salt and pounding too! lol

As far as the pollution part, I intend on running Amsoil in the motor, any motor for that matter! The main reason is,... I'm tired of these bastard Arabs and their oil! Amsoil is made in AMERICA, it's all I run in my cars and my Harley, so it's all I'm going to run in my boats! It doesn't pollute the waters either, everyone should use Amsoil, for the simple fact that it's made in AMERICA and its better for the engines and the motors. I go 25,000 miles between oil changes too, you can't beat that with a stick, the hell with the middle east, they should make that area a big lake!

-- Edited by Rum Runner at 12:00, 2008-08-15

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Voyager Contributor

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What is the motor in California ?? Amsoil is the best Synthetic. EPA for an old boat motor.

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1958 VAGABOND II,1950 FireFly, A 1955 Lone Star Star Jet .

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Meteor Contributor

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Eagle, I don't understand you last post.

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Voyager Contributor

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Sounds like local EPA regulations. Something Like California would come up with.

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1958 VAGABOND II,1950 FireFly, A 1955 Lone Star Star Jet .

An Embarrassment to the entire boating community.



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Miss Piggy is running a four cylinder Merc. The Vagabonds displace alot more water than the boats Yamato's are usually run on.  Your best bet is too see what the guys on Boatracingfacts.com think. When they say 675 pounds max with the Yamato they are still referring to a race boat that skims the surface of the water. What ya need is a 1956 30 powerhead on an early style OMC lower which is slimmer and lighter. My 30hp rat motor on the early style lower weighs in at 95 pounds. You'll need to find out the gear ratio in the lower unit of the Yamato motor.

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Meteor Contributor

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Flyingaceman,

I'm going to try to keep the typing to a minimum! The 700 lbs. is the minimum weight! I would be 675 lbs, boat motor and me.

Wouldn't the '56 30 hp head on an earlier slimmer and lighter motor put too much of a major strain on the gear train of the lower unit?

The gear ratio of the Yamato 302 is 14-16.

Thom

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Meteor Contributor

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Is that 4 cylinder Merc on Miss P Piggy one of those discontinued racing motors?

I think the torque on the 302 Yamato is around 26.7

-- Edited by Rum Runner at 13:48, 2008-08-15

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Rum Runner '56 Vagabond II Soon to be on a Custom built polished aluminum trailer


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No I don't think that it is. I believe its just souped by Tom the owner.

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No, its essentially the same gears inside the foot. The lower leg has a slimmer profile and its lighter.  The entire motor weighs in at 95 pounds for a 30 hp. I get a tick under 30 with this on my Deluxe Runabout and I can pull a skier. I'd be tempted to try a Yamato on my Deluxe Runabout with its rear steering and all but on my Vagabond I wouldn't. The 302 is used alot in the F- class racing where you have two men sitting in a row in a race boat.  Another thing too consider is the Yamato has a very short lower leg. The DeSilva of mine that ran a Yamato had a transom that was 12 inches tall. Its your money afterall. Only trying too shed some light.

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Meteor Contributor

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Tell me what year, if you will, is your early style OMC lower which is slimmer and lighter, are you talking about the whole motor or only the lower shaft? Do I just need to find a earlier lower that will bolt up to the Javelin or due I need to put a 30hp head on an earlier model motor?

Tell me, tell me!

The Deluxe Runabout is only about 50 lbs. lighter than the Vagabond, and the beam is only 2 inches wider than the DR.

The Yamato is made for a 13.5" transom, and that could be fixed easily with a jack plate for the Vagabond, cause it's only a 1.5 " difference from the 15' transom of the Vagabond. I plan to put a jack plate or tilt and trim anyway, I could make it adjustable for either motor.

I am checking things out as to whether or not I will buy a 302 Yamato. I just want to go faster than a stock OMC type motor.

By the way you should know that I appreciate your input!!

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Rum Runner '56 Vagabond II Soon to be on a Custom built polished aluminum trailer


Voyager Contributor

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Now, THIS is a good thread !!! I'm pullin for ya Rum Runner ! Faster isn't always better [I.E. Jet Ski] But Faster with Style is better. I know I have heard a lot of caution being stated here on this site in regards to max H.P. and Transom strength but has anyone Ever heard of a Vagabond having any type of catastrophic failure regarding the transom ?????

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1958 VAGABOND II,1950 FireFly, A 1955 Lone Star Star Jet .

An Embarrassment to the entire boating community.



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Eagle,

How you doing? This is a good thread! I've never heard of anyone having a problem with the transom. Maybe no ones ever put enough strain on one. One of the first things I did on my Vagabond was to use a piece of 1/4" plate aluminum to KEEP the integrity of my transom from any harm.

The only thing I've done different from what others have done with applying aluminum pieces to their transom is this. The piece I added to my transom is extending about 3 1/2" past the brackets where the gunwale meets the transom on both sides. I notched the aluminum plate to fit around the part of the bracket that sits right against the transom.

I'll take some pictures of how it looks, and post them this weekend so ya'all can see what I did, One of the 2 reasons I did this is because I like to jump wakes with boats too. To make the plate of aluminum look as good as possible, the angle of the plate is the same as the angle of the mahogany on the transom.

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Deluxe Runabout Contributor

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You will need to find a pre 1955 entire lower leg and put a 1956 30 hp powerhead on it. A 1953-54 lower leg is your best bet. If it has electric start, lose it. Extra weight ya know. 35hp powerheads won't fit. Even by doing all this your probably only looking at a 2-3 mph gain. Its so hard to get these boats beyond the high 20's in speed unless you overpower them. I'd most definately like to go faster myself without having to overpower the boat with a big 50 hp motor. Anyone can do that. (and eventually ruin an irreplacable boat in the process) With the Yamato, wouldn't it be nice if you could try before you buy? They are excellent motors and are very dependable and durable. Its really not a bad idea of what your thinking. If you do buy one and its not going to work out you probably won't have any problem selling it. This is how I run the "Rat" on the Feather. The other is a pic of a Big Twin on my Alumacraft aired out.

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Meteor Contributor

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Guys,

I just got to thinking about something! On "You Tube" there's a video of Ted Allison at the Hiawassee Ga. springstream 2008 get together with His '54 Vagabond I with the red windshield. He has a Merc (I think, it's hard to tell with those video's) that's 60 horse power, I wonder if he's ever looked real close at the transom on his boat with that 60 horse Merc. What does that puppy weigh??? What kind of stress is that putting on the back of that boat?? How long has he been running the 60 on the boat? Too bad Magnafluxing is fairly expensive, that would tell if that motor is too much for the transom if there are cracks developing where they can't be seen.

I want to thank you guys for your input, it is a pleasure! Flyinaceman, your Deluxe Runabout is one very good looking Rig, I must say!




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Hmm seems some of us lucky guys have access to magnaflux, eddy current , Dye Penetrate and FLIR ... My Vagabond has no stress related problems. That's why the rivets leak and have to be reshot from time to time. These boats are loose ! By that I mean they were shot with Type one rivets. Not type four rivets that set up stress cracks. Type four are interference fit. That means you drill a 187 hole and shoot a 189 rivet. You get the rivet in the hole by freezing it in liquid nitrogen. Now, those type of rivets need stress relief !!! These boats will bend, not break. I'm telling ya , these boats are built tough. I'm not telling anyone to exceed the recommended HP because I didn't design the boat and I am not a structural engineer . What creates more stress ? Pushing a hull thru water at 50 mph of pushing an airframe thru air at 1800 mph ??? I don't know, I'm just asking.

-- Edited by Eagle127 at 01:51, 2008-08-16

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1958 VAGABOND II,1950 FireFly, A 1955 Lone Star Star Jet .

An Embarrassment to the entire boating community.



Meteor Contributor

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Eagle,

I'm with you on this!! I have to say also that I'm not looking to put monster h.p. on my boat either, but I wonder just how much science was used to determine the horse power rating for these boats! My boat it rated for 40 h.p., I would bet money that there has to be a little wiggle room for more horse power without ruining something. As long as the weight is not going to create a problem and I think that the weight of a larger motor is more detrimental than the amount of the horse power. I would think that the weight of a larger h.p. motor holding the transom lower in the water is going to create more detrimental push on the boat than the horse power itself! Get the boat on top of the water with just the back end of the hull and transom and the lower unit and prop in the water and you would have much less drag overall!

Just my opinion! And I'm not giving up on this. Maybe the answer is what Miss P Piggy is running. By the time I'm ready to do something about this problem of more speed, Yamato may have that 402 ready to run, who knows?

I think we who want to run a little faster need to keep the ideas coming, I'm just saying!

-- Edited by Rum Runner at 13:37, 2008-08-16

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Guru Contributor

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Please don't let me kick off a sort of "slide rule vs computer" debate but it would be interesting to do a stress simulation on a solidworks model to verify the specified power limitations.   BTW, age and condition are critical.  A buddy and I was removing the transom wood today and many of the bolts easily broke as we tried to remove them.  Mainly from corrosion likely due to improper wood treatment and badly filled unused motor mounting holes.



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Meteor Contributor

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Yeah!... Not to mention, 50 some odd years! It would be safe to say that everybody's aluminum bolts and screws have broke taking these things apart. I managed to get 2 of them out without breaking them and that was all !

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Rum Runner '56 Vagabond II Soon to be on a Custom built polished aluminum trailer


Vagabond Contributor

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Hello rocky

i'm building a model of a Vagabond II in Inventor and it would be a good idea to put a stress simulation on the transom if the model is ready .

but this is not going to be very soon because i have to do a lot of work to do on my boat still, maybe late autum
i'll keep you informed.

Paul

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I doubt a feathercraft will plane with a yamato racing motor...With a near 1:1 ratio, a little diameter racing prop, too tall of transom and a heavy boat.  A jackplate would make the situation worse, the transom will be too tall for this motor for the little prop to get a bite.  300# is way to heavy of a boat, the hydros it was designed for are around 100#. 
Are you talking about the Formula V class that typically runs 13-14ft Vee bottom glass boats?  Hopefully not.
I wish it would work, but I would hate to see u spend that kinda $ and be disapointed.  I guess you could always sell the motor.
Good luck and keep us all posted.

-- Edited by LakeRacer99 on Monday 27th of April 2009 12:19:51 AM

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I know this thread is year old and you probably haven't gone through with getting a Yamato 302, but I have to chime in...


I race C Stock Hydroplanes in APBA, American Power Boat Association. I run a Yamato 102. This is basically a 302 with points instead of electronic ignition. Its a bit older, but has the same specs and rating.

My hydroplane weighs 120lbs. With me and all my gear and the motor, I weigh in at just over 440lbs. During a race I will see speeds around +/-66mph. Trust me, this is fast. The center of the prop shaft is run at just 3/4, .75, of an inch below the bottom of my boat. Since these motors have no impeller to pump water, it relies on the water thrown from the prop that it caught in an inlet and fills the motor to a drain at the top.

Now in order to plane off I have to give it full throttle and lean as far forward as I can. The motor will wind right up, around 7000rpm and plow through the water until the there is enough speed for the prop to grab properly, then it takes off.

Now if you add another 250lbs to that (so you'd be near the 700lbs you mentioned) I would highly doubt it could plane that boat off... its just not meant for that kind of set up. If it was at all possible, you would have to run it very deep with a very low pitch prop and you resulting speed would be slower then any fishing motor you have run.

The largest diameter prop you can have is about 7". The ones we race are about 6.5" dia. and 11"pitch, but when thats spinning at 7300+rpm you get 65+mph.

If anyone is interested in running a yamato I suggest getting a boat designed for racing and capable of those speeds.

If anyone is interested in actually racing, let me know, ask questions. I'd be more then happy to answer them.

Just my $0.02

-- Edited by Silas_53A on Thursday 27th of August 2009 07:01:11 PM

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Deluxe Runabout Contributor

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Hey it took a year, but finally someone agrees with me! Lol!

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